In the Energy News Beat – Conversation in Energy with Stuart Turley - George McMillan delve into the geopolitical strategies surrounding Russian natural gas and global realignment. They explore historical theories like sea power versus land power, explaining how these influence current global conflicts, including the war in Ukraine and the strategic blocking of Russian ports and pipelines. The discussion also covers the role of energy as a geopolitical tool, China's Belt and Road Initiative, Japan's positioning, and Iran's significance in the energy landscape, all framed around the broader context of U.S. and NATO strategies in these regions.
Highlights of the Podcast
00:00 - Intro
00:47 - Overview of Russian Natural Gas and Geopolitical Realignment
01:41 - Economic Feedback Loops and Infrastructure
03:04 - Media Control and Government Strategies
04:20 - Historical Geostrategic Theories on Russia
06:18 - Academia’s Role in Diluting Geopolitical Knowledge
10:02 - Germany’s Energy Crisis and Russian Gas
14:20 - Cold War Energy Strategy and Assassinations
19:31 - Energy Pipelines as Strategic Targets
30:00 - NATO’s Role in Ukraine and Eastern Europe
28:16 - Japan’s Strategic Positioning
50:00 - China’s Belt and Road Initiative
55:58 - Iran’s Role in Global Energy Geopolitics
01:02:36 - Conclusion and Next Steps
George and I are recording several more podcast episodes about critical geopolitical issues and President Trump’s administration. They are missing critical components and issues to help develop key winning strategies.
Stuart Turley [00:00:07] Hello, everybody. Welcome to the Energy News Beat podcast. My name's Stu Turley, president and CEO of the Sandstone Group. Today we've got George McMillan, who is the CEO over there at his consulting firm. And I'll tell you what, this is not just a crazy time that we live in. It is a nutty time. There are things that people are missing that are right in front of them. And today, we're going to be talking about Russian natural gas and global geopolitical realignment strategies. And there are people that have just flat missed what's right in front of their eyes. George, welcome and thanks for joining the podcast again.
George McMillan [00:00:47] Yeah, thanks a lot for having me back on again. Yeah, we went over the Russian Natural Gas and Global Geopolitical Realignment series of papers last year or some of them. I got a lot more of them, in fact, there later on in this slides that we're not going to get to them. We're just going to talk over maps. Right. But what is absolutely astonishing, it is mind blowing that people think that Russia invaded for no reason and they don't realize the effort of the sea power, the Anglosphere, sea power strategies to block in all Russian ports during the sailing days because economic theory is about taking raw materials, producing them into consumer products. Right. And then delivering them to consumers. Right? So you need physical plant structure and logistical infrastructure, energy infrastructure, communications infrastructure to make those feedback loops happen.
Stuart Turley [00:01:42] You bet. And and one of the things that you pointed out was the Sean Ryan show. And I love Sean Ryan. I want to give Sean just a shout out. I give him a hug, thank him for his service. But also Mike Ben's that was a heck of a podcast that they just put out. It was as episode number 132 Yeah. And and at the 230 Mark George, they started talking about the move towards shutting down how he really had to how the, the governments of the world are trying to shut down social media and information. But what prompted your our discussion again on this is that it's like if Sean doesn't grab it, that it is a eyeopener that people are not getting what's going on and that if President Trump does get back into the White House and I'm taking this up for this clip that we're going to show, if President Trump gets back into the White House, all the whys and why everything else is about your geostrategic academia, why the Russian things happen or why attacks happen. And that is something you've been studying through all these years. Let's play this clip.
George McMillan [00:03:04] Let me let me sorry to say one thing first. The reason why I opened up about the basic fundamentals of economic feedback, loop of raw materials, consumer products and delivering them and in structure of an infrastructure, the different types is because once you know what economic development theory is, geostrategic theory is the opposite. It's about blocking and thwarting each one of those steps, right? So a country cannot develop. So if you're for somebody that just reads the old books. Yeah, well, this is Bateman's book about, well, about the sea power versus land power theories. It was man started it. You want to prevent countries from turning production into wealth and then building up their their economies because then they can build up their militaries. And then you had. Mackinder Well, my hand was sea power versus sea power. And what happened in that time frame is the Anglosphere dominated the colonial world, right? And then with with Mackinder, it's after World War Two. So the power, the global political center of gravity shifts from London to Washington and London. Right. But they're trying to play keep away. And the Anglosphere has always tried to keep the power, the global power center, from shifting to Moscow. Right.
Stuart Turley [00:04:20] And what you and I talked about last time was how the world of academia has destroyed the knowledge base. And you've got the knowledge base that has been destroyed. Fair statement.
George McMillan [00:04:33] Correct? Yeah. I was fortunate to have professors that still did the liberal versus conservative thing. Right. So other people I have never heard, they're only getting left and far left choice. Yeah. So this is. Yeah, go ahead and play Mike Benz All right. And we'll be reroll some other stuff and then we'll talk about it further bit.
Stuart Turley [00:04:53] Mis Producer We'll go ahead and drop this in here.
Video Clip [00:04:57] Between Energy Conference. I'm not talking about the censorship. Talking about the gas. We're talking about the reason we're there. I've not heard this, everybody. It's never discussed. Well, if you spend a minute in their world, in their own conferences, at their own means, I mean, you can go to their YouTube page right now, go to the L.A. County's YouTube page, go to a go to glob sex YouTube page, you know, go to the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, YouTube page, go to the movies, any any of them. And Putin, she's not talking about this, is he? It was about the US taking Crimea for gas. Talked about this stuff. I mean, he talks about this play of them trying to, you know, go through with this energy diversification. Somewhat frequently I feel this. I mean, they they said that we were the ones who blew up the Nord Stream pipelines. But then, you know, I believe he told Tucker Carlson, well, look across my face. Why don't you talk about the Nord Stream two pipeline If you think we have. We blew it up. Why don't you make your case on the on the world stage? And you remember what he said is he said the U.S. owns the propaganda apparatus. It's basically feudal. You know, we have diplomatic communications and everyone knows what's up, but we can't compete with the media. So, you know, what can we say that, you know, they the US did it. We said that, you know, with what infrastructure, you know, can we amplify that that message other than Russia today, which is under sanctions and there's that registered bar and all this.
Stuart Turley [00:06:18] And so. So when you sit back and take a look, it is clear from when you see the Mike Benn's interview with Sean Ryan that the world that the media is controlled by the machine in Washington, D.C., and that machine, even Putin just kind of gave up on it. I mean, they have warned even Putin now he goes, why should I even bother with it?
George McMillan [00:06:45] Yeah, it's from what I gather, the people that are familiar with the with the sea power versus land power strategies. Right. Which which is going to be Annapolis and the Navy War College here in the US. And then, you know, Britain has there is in Oxford and Sandhurst and wherever else. Right. Those guys know it. They've been trying to block Russian ports. Russia is as big as the country It is, you know, minus the Arctic ports of archangel and whatnot. They really only have what they had St Petersburg and Clinton and Pride in the Baltic. So those are blocked. And naturally they've got Rostov on Don, on Don in the Azoff Sea, inside the Black Sea. Then the other one is completely all the way over in Vladivostok, which is inside the Japanese island chain. Right? So, yeah, if you go to if you go to the map, see what's astonishing is it's really super obvious that deep sea power versus land power strategies are kept in a very small circle. Even though you can buy the books for $10 off of Amazon.
Stuart Turley [00:07:48] Yes, but. And they are removed from the military learning centers and or ROTC is around all over the country and everything is gone. What slide would you like?
George McMillan [00:08:00] Would you go to Slide nine? Spiderman theory is about for the sea power strategy. You want to control all the coastal rim land industrial powers because the industrial powers are always located near sea, near sea ports. Right. So during the colonial period, a Great Britain always, you know, was in colonial power confrontations with the Portuguese, the Dutch, Italy, especially France. And they came to dominate the coastal rim land areas pretty much. So then after World War Two, you have the technology changes because it's no longer shipping. As my hand went into corporate Corbett's theory in the 1800s, it's like, well, it's no longer shipping. With the advent of the railroad, the the heartland is going to start gaining an advantage because it can take its immense amount of resources ship to the coastal land, industrial power centers, right. And then get money and then try to economically develop. So Great Britain's always been trying to stop that. This is not new. Like we said before. This is this has been going on for basically since the industrial revolution, when, when, when when Peter the Great built St Petersburg, it basically started that. So what's changed? The geography stays the same. Technology has changed the railroad. And then it became the the natural gas pipelines. So if you look at Spike men's room land theory and this is what Brzezinski and the Wolfowitz doctrines is all about, you want to stop as much trade as possible from going from the Russian heartland or Soviet Union heartland to the coastal rangeland strategy to the coastal rim land sea ports. So that's what they're trying to block. When Russia and Russia had natural gas and started delivering pipelines to to Eastern Europe, then people were like, wait a second. Whoever is hooked up to Russian natural gas is going to have an immense industrial advantage over those that are not. Hooked up to Russian natural gas. So now now.
Stuart Turley [00:10:03] We've seen that. And I'm on Slide 13. And what you describe, George, was Germany when Germany had low cost energy, it was really taking advantage of that and it made a huge difference. And now it doesn't. Deindustrialization occurs.
George McMillan [00:10:24] Right? Yeah.
Stuart Turley [00:10:25] So is there a different slide that you would like the producer to bring in?
George McMillan [00:10:29] Yeah, go to go to 14. All right. So you go from in theory when you go from spike in strategy into Cold War strategy when they started actually delivering pipeline into Germany and it's on. There's 2DW videos we don't have time to be roll those but one of them opens up and he starts talking about the United States has been trying to prevent Germany from getting hooked on Russian natural gas since the 1960s during the Kennedy administration. Wow. And later on, in the same very same video, they say it's not about the Russian natural gas. It's about Putin. Putin was in diapers during the Kennedy administration. Right. Okay. So it is so ridiculous. It's all about the natural gas. So then we have to explain why it's about the natural gas and then it goes down to economic development theory. Back to my hand. You don't want product being traded overseas, so then it becomes wealth. So then they can internally well and get export led growth, economic development theory. Right? So I have a big long slide set at the end. We're not going to go into that of everything that Russia has to do. We'll have to get into that in a different in a different time frame. Sure. So the strategy since the 1960s has been to stop every Russian natural gas pipeline going going from the Warsaw Pact into into Germany. Now they the earlier pipelines if you. Okay. The Orange pipeline on this one this is this map's good enough because it's going through Belarus breaking apart going through Ukraine and then going through going through Slovakia and Hungary and then on to on to Austria. Right. Once it gets to Austria. Alfred Alfred Herr Hodgson of Deutsche Bank was assisting the pipelines going to Russia during the 80 during the 1980s. And you have the big you have the big pipeline explosion in 1982 where they put in software into Russia and had that big explosion out in the Urals. So they've been trying to they've been trying to stop this since the 80s. And then in 1989, Alfred, her Hausen, was assassinated. They blamed it on Baader-Meinhof. Okay. But before that and reggae metal Enrico Mackay of any was trying to build the was trying to take the natural gas on the southern pipelines that go through. Yeah this one doesn't have the maps that go through tries to, you know go through Slovenia and into Christa. But he was trying to tap into Russian gas back then and his his aircraft was blown up upon landing. There was a bomb put in their front landing gear. So when it was deployed on landing, it would it would blow up the plane and the plane would crash and it killed him. When you move to more recent times, Saddam Hussein and Bashar al-Assad were going to build the pipeline, going to Turkey, you know, Baghdad, Damascus to Turkey and then to Latakia, and they were going to trade in in euros and exit the petrodollar. Well, they both had their countries invaded. Right? Oops. When you go to Omar, Moammar Gadhafi, he was going to trade in gold. Well, he was going to continue enrica murty's strategy of building the pipeline to Sicily and then trading in gold, not dollars. And then he had his country invaded. Shinzo Abe was going to complete on all the way on the left on this slide. He was going to complete the the natural gas pipelines in Sakhalin Island to the Hakodate Island. And then that was blocked with diplomatic pressure in 2016. And then he was assassinated last year. Wow. All right. The last I forget the guy's name, the guy in South Korea that got stabbed. Yes. Okay. He was going to continue the pipeline discussions that's been going on since 2014 of building the pipelines down from Vladivostok through North Korea and into South Korea. Right. And he was on a pro a pro, you know, South Korea first strategy of we're not going to be industrialized like Germany. If there's war that breaks out in the Pacific. We're just we want to have a backup gas supply. Right. And then he gets stabbed in the neck, Robert. Joe in Slovakia wanted to continue purchasing Russian natural gas via pipeline. And what, he got shot or stabbed, Right. You know, that wasn't that long ago. So there's this bizarre, strange set of coincidences that whoever tries to hook up to Russian natural gas has an untimely demise. Right. It's a very high set of coincidences. Right. So that's.
Stuart Turley [00:15:24] Almost.
George McMillan [00:15:24] Epstein like yeah they yeah, almost. Epstein Like. So the purpose of this now if you could with this kind of overview that the United States does not want natural gas to go to the industrial power centers. Let's go back up to slide three. There we go. Okay. So the way Ambassador George Kennan operationalized, you know, Spike means theory. Right. And Yale, all these people are Yale people, by the way. Okay. All right. I mentioned it before. They bring people in from Ivy League schools to go to the Yale Grand Strategies classes and then send it back to wherever they need to go in some kind of government entity of some sort. All right. That seems to be the pattern, even since John Foster Dulles now enjoys way back in the day. So in this case, World War two ends. Kennan writes his long telegram in 1947 that they need that the West needs to revitalize western Germany and Japan and Japan so we can control both axial ends of Eurasia, because whoever controls, you know, the Mackinder theory is whoever controls Eurasia controls the world island. And then the global political center of gravity shifts would shift to Moscow. He's really talking about Moscow. So what Ben, what Mike Barnes misses and Shawn Ryan is the Anglosphere strategy. Coastal homeland strategy is all about keeping the global political center of of gravity from shifting to Moscow. So London and Washington don't want it to shift to Berlin or Moscow or Moscow and Beijing. Right? They definitely don't want it to shift to Berlin, Moscow, Beijing and Tokyo. Right. So when you go to. Yeah, it's hard. So here they're the original industrial power center theory was the United States was power center number one. Britain was power center. Number two, Western Europe was three, and then Japan was four. The Soviet Union was five. That changes when you go down to the next slide. So, yeah, it changes to the modern conception of North America and power Center number one, Western Europe and Power Center number two. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan is power. You know, the first island chain, right? Power center, number three, China's number four, and then Russia's number five. Right. Because their original one was before Mao Zedong defeated Chiang Kai shek and everybody else and all the warlords he defeated right after 1950. It shifted to something like that because if when the D.W. videos, videos and all have to be role goes at another time, I think it was Mark Goodman was his name. He was talking about there is a school of thought that says if you're economically the more economically integrated you are or more infrastructural integrated you are, then the more diplomatically integrated you are and economically integrated. Okay. Right. The school of thought he's talking about is permissive time analysis. So Bismarck was always talking about the better economy you have, the better military you have. And your diplomats are only as powerful as your military and your economy. So now you.
Stuart Turley [00:18:42] Pay in and I'm just kind of sideline for half a stick because the UK is really to being their energy policies currently doing interconnects and they have lost their ability for their diplomats to actually stand on their feet because they're all there interconnects, they're buying electricity from all these places, they're destroying their oil and their gas. And so they're self imposing stupidity in losing all of their security.
George McMillan [00:19:12] yeah, I think.
Stuart Turley [00:19:13] Believable.
George McMillan [00:19:14] People are arguing that the economic conditions in Britain are way worse than than people think, which. Yeah, that's what I think. Well, here I mean they this is districts are no longer really trustworthy.
Stuart Turley [00:19:25] Yes. Yeah.
George McMillan [00:19:26] Well we'll just trust that. Trust me.
Stuart Turley [00:19:29] Trust in and verify from Ronald Reagan. Yeah. You can't verify if you can't get anything.
George McMillan [00:19:35] Right because people you know, they say inflation. What do they say the inflation rate is now? I don't even know. I don't even pay attention because when people go back and look on look at their Amazon sales, you know, by again, yeah.
Stuart Turley [00:19:49] It's 30%. I mean when you take yeah, energy is 50% higher. But is that an inflation number? No, it's 3% when they. Say, inflation 3% according to the CPI. No, it's not. So what? What did you pay for years ago?
George McMillan [00:20:06] Yeah. What did you pay for years ago? Yeah. And when people look at their at their reordering on Amazon, it's gone way up. It's gone ten times. 3%.
Stuart Turley [00:20:15] Exactly.
George McMillan [00:20:15] Those you know, Bureau of Labor Statistics statistics are not statistics. No. So when you get back when you get back to the power center theory after after Mao Zedong takes power and then you get into Nixon diplomacy, then they're trying to peel away China from Russia because Stalin and Mao Stalin always treated Mao Tse-Tung like a junior citizen. They resented that China is trying to get out of its 100 year humiliation from the West, and then it gets humiliated by Stalin. So then they really want to develop from the 70s. And when Nixon's ping pong diplomacy through the 80s, the United States started transforming trends, offshoring more jobs over there, thinking that they're going to develop China and then turn it into more of a liberal democracy. Right. I know that that didn't happen. And I had a big argument with somebody, a Chicago economist. Right. That was like, all that China can do with American dollars is buy from America. Well, no, they bought American operating companies in real estate, Right? They bought things that would keep on generating profit. They didn't buy our goods and trade our goods. Right. So all the theories to bring China into our sphere to join the first island chain, it backfired. They used they create, you know, by hand storms. They took their production, they turned it into wealth and they economically develop. And Wall Street in the city of London just started offshoring our jobs over there like crazy. And then they with all the espionage, they steal our technology and they replicate it. And now it's a Frankenstein that's out of control. So now instead of separating Russia and China, it's driving them together because China, as they economically developed, became increasingly dependent upon oil and gas from the Middle East, which then has to go through the Strait of Malacca that the Anglosphere controls.
Stuart Turley [00:22:11] And that and this is now birthed several different new trading corridors that is now under going on. So the sanctions that the Biden-Harris administration have put in basically drove North Korea, China and Russia together.
George McMillan [00:22:30] And Iran in.
Stuart Turley [00:22:31] Yet. Holy smokes.
George McMillan [00:22:33] Yeah, because these countries don't even like each other. If you listen to the mainstream media. The evil, the axis of evil, all that nonsense. No, they have a common enemy, See? Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, the the Cold War ends in the 1990s. So the first thing China does with the dissolution of the Soviet empire is start building pipelines into Central Asia. Yeah, we have those on different maps, but we'll just stay we'll just stay on this one for now because I want to go through the power centers strategies. And so they they were built they they started immediately upgrading, you know, building gas pipelines out to Urumqi and then into Kyrgyzstan and and Kazakhstan to get to the to get to the Caspian Sea oil and then Turkmenistan while Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan. So they can even get into Iran because they want it. They want overland logistical supply routes. So the Silk Road Initiative is about building overland logistical supply routes and people will talk about that, but they don't get to the sea power versus land power aspect of it, which is they want to avoid the Straits of Malacca, Straits of more Straits of Hormuz. Right. Because they want the advantage to shift away from sea power to land power. So you need the dime. You know, dime integration is diplomatic, infrastructural information, military and economic. Right. So you want they want the dime integration with Central Asia because they want to steal it away from Russia. Right. Because of of they you know, Mao was was slighted by by Stalin. That's still stuck you know, in their craw. They they want to get that gas natural gas and oil and minerals to to China. China is a coastal rim land industrial power so it it there's taking it away from Russia so they're not beholden to them and then they're sending over over land to start to mitigate the sea power advantage vantages through the Straits of Hormuz and Straits of Malacca. Right. So people talk about the Silk Road Silk Road Initiative as if it's a trading initiative, which it is, but then they miss the geo strategic aspect of it's it's the idea is to thwart the Anglosphere sea power strategies right? So Russia has built and Mike Pence mentions this in the video they did build. Tower of Siberia, too, In the Far East that goes down to goes down to China. And since Nord Stream got blown up and South Stream got politically sabotaged, Nord Stream was, you know, explosively sabotaged. Right. Russia now wants to build the Yamal pipelines. That goes down to that goes to China also. That's going to take a while, right? They're going to build that. They people will say, well, Putin and she had a you know, those those negotiations broke down last month. Yes. China is having financial difficulties. Right. And probably can't afford to do that right now. But that doesn't mean that Putin is going to stop building that pipeline all the way down to the border now. And China probably doesn't want is probably that conference where the negotiations broke, broke down, I think is for show. Right, Because China wants to avoid negotiations. But I think the wink, wink, nod, nod is for Putin to go ahead and build those pipelines southward anyway. Right. Okay. Just like Hokkaido Island, the United States put the kibosh on that. Right. But if the South China Sea becomes are navigable because there is a war, what is Japan going to do? Are they going to get into World War three or are they just going to complete that 35, 40 mile stretch under the sea and set World War three out and sea.
Stuart Turley [00:26:24] As a as a leader of a country prosperity or go to war? And I believe Japan will big prosperity.
George McMillan [00:26:32] I think they'll do that. I'm just going way out on a limb. You bet. Okay. Because people are like, with with all these joint operations that China is is surrounding Iran because they're you know, they're practicing their invasion of Taiwan. Right. Right. Are they really going to physically invade Taiwan? Because it would be really difficult and it would be kind of disastrous. They just need to blockade it. Exactly. All right. So what are they what what what would be the knock on effects of that? The knock on effects of, you know, China has built up all those islands, you know, the Spratly Islands and building up, putting those artificial building of those artificial reefs and putting and putting air bases and and Coast Guard bases on them. Well, what they're what the signal that they're sending is if the U.S. Navy blocked Strait of Malacca Strait of Hormuz, then they're going to block the South China Sea. So they would be blocking the Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan from all their energy supplies.
Stuart Turley [00:27:30] Absolutely.
George McMillan [00:27:31] All right. So what second message are they sending to those countries? Is they better start by a buying natural gas from Vladivostok and Sakhalin and be exit the Petro dollar and paying rubles because of the sanctions on Russia. They have to do that now. Japan when after the U.S. sanctions and I think it was Shell, BP and Exxon, I think those were the right three pulled out of Sakhalin. The Japanese companies all moved right back in, plus I think a Turkish company in India, if I'm not mistaken. But they moved right back in, bought those shares, you know, bought those stakes and moved right back in. Right. So Japan wanted to Japan obviously opened up that option so they can sit out of World War three.
Stuart Turley [00:28:17] Absolutely.
George McMillan [00:28:18] Yeah. If you the Japanese admirals are you know they're building up there the rebuilding their navy and they know China is their traditional enemy and they want to keep them off. You know, Okinawa and those islands in between Japan and Taiwan. Right. But is that Navy going to enter World War three or is Japan just going to use the Navy to protect themselves and sit World War three out? See, I doubt that's widely discussed outside of the top Japanese areas.
Stuart Turley [00:28:49] I think our I'm going to be honest with you, I think our current administration is too stupid to even think about this discussion.
George McMillan [00:28:57] Yeah, but but that but the War College has.
Stuart Turley [00:29:00] Yeah, but they're keeping it from everybody else there.
George McMillan [00:29:02] Yeah. I mean that's what I'm guessing. That's my guess. So the. Yeah. Because it's China has, I mean Japan and, and Russia and Sakhalin they have an LNG gasification gasification plant, you know, 40 miles apart across the bay. Right. So they can build they and they have so that means they have the pipeline network already in place inside their own country, Right. So they've made it. So all they need to do is just make that 140 mile link. Yep. They probably already have the pipeline laid out to do that. I would not be surprised.
Stuart Turley [00:29:39] I would not be surprised either. In fact, with the the last in the last several months, Putin has met with Kim Jong un several times. And during those several times, I guarantee you pipeline discussions were on the table.
George McMillan [00:29:56] Yeah, our media keeps on saying, they're over there because they're running out of artillery shells and.
Stuart Turley [00:30:01] No.
George McMillan [00:30:02] No, they're over there. Putin never goes anywhere and does not talk about pipelines.
Stuart Turley [00:30:08] No, no, it's about pipelines. Once you get integrated into his low cost gas that he has plenty of is a good thing for both of them.
George McMillan [00:30:16] Yeah. I did use Google translator to translate English to Korean. Right. And I did throw that on on Google search and YouTube searches. And I found articles of. Yes. In in in the Korean papers. They you know, it has pictures of Putin talking to the different leaders right about and there's pipelines in the background so that since 2014.
Stuart Turley [00:30:42] It was not a few months.
George McMillan [00:30:43] No, but I mean, it's been going on for a long time. Yes. Yeah. Right. So, yeah, the discussions have been going on for a long time. And yes, the war in Ukraine recently just happens to to block all these pipelines that were just about to be completed. Wow. So when you start to make the correlations, it's the.
Stuart Turley [00:31:03] Ukraine is really much more than a crime scene.
George McMillan [00:31:07] Right. So go down to the next map. And I made a I made a Rousseau centric wall in a Rousseau centric version if they were allowed to get, you know, in Speakman terms, the axial ends of, of, of Eurasia, then you have Moscow and power center number one, the German world and Power Center. Number three, India as a newly industrialized country and power center. Number three, China and four. And Japan. And South Korea. And five.
Stuart Turley [00:31:36] And where? The third world country.
George McMillan [00:31:38] Now and then we're over And power center number six. So I took Kenyans five power center theories you know from the 50s and I just made a Rousseau centric version of this of the same concept. Because if the fear has always been if Russian gas goes to the German world, then they're connected by pipelines to all the surrounding countries. Right? So then the it's not just Germany or Eastern West Germany, whatever time period you're talking about, right? Mr. Holland Liechtenstein and Austria leaving the petrodollar and trading in rubles.
Stuart Turley [00:32:11] Which is well underway.
George McMillan [00:32:14] Right. So the fear, according to the GW video and maybe in the next one will be roll some of that so people can see what I'm talking about. But according to the GW video with our and our ambassadors on it. State Department spokesman Right. They you know talk about they tried to stop that during the 1960s or early 1960s. So I guess Billy brought was still the mayor of Berlin. Right? Right. And it's carried forward. It hasn't stopped its increase, not decrease. I went through all the people that had mysterious came to mysterious demises. And it's always about shifting Russian gas and and pain and non dollars. That's the common theme here. So in this one in the papers I did about the the Russian natural gas domino theory it's yeah if Russia sends its natural gas pipelines to Germany it's it's not just Germany is the whole German speaking world right then if they exit the petrodollar and pay in rubles, well then what about the Slavic countries on the Danube River Valley. Right. Because then you have.
Stuart Turley [00:33:20] I'm going to slide up to the next one here that shows that a little bit closer. Yeah. When you take a look at Ukraine, which is right up under number one, you have Russia, you have Ukraine, you have up in the this in this map, the six power centers understanding the war in Ukraine. For our podcast listeners you take a look at Ukraine. I always said under this that Russia invaded Ukraine to get the land bridge to Crimea, to get the eight seaports and the sub bases there. So they extend that out. But then that turned out that we had all of the U.S. funded labs, bioweapons labs and the all the corruption going on with the elect US elected officials. You almost can't blame.
George McMillan [00:34:14] Putin, right? Yeah. So Mike Barnes is really strong on the censorship and his personal experience in dealing with that area, with the with the US government. Yep. I'm strong in just reading books on geopolitical theory. Right.
Stuart Turley [00:34:28] You think I'm in the middle there?
George McMillan [00:34:30] Yeah. Well, you're in the energy. Yeah. Because if Russia connects, it is pipelines to Germany and Japan and it's it's already connected to, to China. Right. And they've already built the international North-South trade corridor to India. Right. Well, then those countries are our infrastructure to be integrated with Russia, the Russian heartland, and then economically. Integrated. So then they're diplomatically integrated and then militarily integrated because whenever you have a tremendous investment in something, you always have armed guards guarding it.
Stuart Turley [00:35:08] Exactly. And then when you take a look, I'm sliding back down to number six. And what you just described and how we describe this rolls around and understands why the U.S. and it's actually North America slides back in to power center number six.
George McMillan [00:35:26] And they're isolated.
Stuart Turley [00:35:28] And we are isolated on our own. And you look at BRICs as a formidable solution for the world, global financial and trade in opposition to Swift. It is an amazing thing that you just described.
George McMillan [00:35:46] Right. And again, I'm just using the original cannon by power center. I got John Lewis has got us got us this book around here somewhere or his books, I should say. Right. The Yale professor that's been there for I don't know since one day since this know, since the 70s, because he was there when Stansfield Turner brought him in to the Naval War College and then used the Navy's influence at Yale to get him a professorship at Yale. So it'd be New Haven, a Newport. He could drive back and forth.
Stuart Turley [00:36:15] And see what frustrates me is in and I saw the you and I mentioned this on the previous that we the one that we just released that you and I had talked about is I was so thrilled to hear people talking about when Robert F Kennedy Junior mentioned the fact that he absolutely loved the fact that Donald Donald Trump, President Trump would be different because he learned from that. And he said everybody was throwing people at him to put them in places and he was rushing to get them in there. So I think with really intelligent discussions, he could make better geopolitical discussions in deals. I think the art of Donald Trump's deals would benefit humanity around the world. I mean, it would be a win for other countries and the United States.
George McMillan [00:37:11] Right? If you see, we're talking about Bannon's. But, you know, Mearsheimer has been talking about, well, the movement of NATO's eastward is an existential threat to Russia. And he keeps on saying that, right. But then he doesn't operationalize it and say how it's a threat. Right? So when we're going back to the original five power center doctrine and then, you know, the six power center doctrine that includes India, we're talking about about the permissive dime integration, I'll just use the word dime integration premises, political, military, economic, social, infrastructural, informational. I used diamond Shorter is just diplomatic, informational, infrastructural, military and economic. But, you know, that's the way the acronym goes. But in real life, it flowcharts from, you know, from infrastructure, informational, economic, diplomatic and military. It flows in a flowchart sequence. It goes that way. Right? Because, you know, in economic theory, solo swan models are our economic development theories. That includes different types of technologies, how each layer of technology increases production because people produce more with more tools, the better the tools you have, the the more you produce, the more you can connect producer to consumer with communications, the faster that goes, right? You know, the more you can connect supply, you know, supply and demand is what you're connecting, right? So when you're with geopolitical theory, you know, you're trying to sabotage each one of those things. So now when you see where that what the infrastructural maps are, there happens to be conflict all around Eurasia. So if you go to back to the maps. Yeah, go back to the six power center maps because and what I said at the outset is critical. See, at first the Anglosphere subdued the colonial powers, right? So with geostrategic theory, you want you want your your ally to economically develop to a certain point you don't want them to pass the superpowers.
Stuart Turley [00:39:19] To keep them at arms, you know, 1 or 2 steps behind you.
George McMillan [00:39:24] Right. So a lot of talk about, well, okay, you have Zeiss lithography machines and and sell, you know, to make semiconductor chips. But the United States pressured Germany to move that to Taiwan. Right. They can sell the lithography machines, but they can't do the whole thing. And people like, well, there it is. They want to keep Germany a vassal state. Same thing with Japan. A lot of people think, you know, the Japanese crash of 97 was a pump and dump to make sure that Japan didn't surpass the United States. It's the. Keep them in check. And Japan has the families in Japan have not forgotten that. Right. So it's lurking in my mind that, yes, they'll pay lip service to jumping in World War three. But again, isn't that a lot easier just to buy to complete the pipeline to Sakhalin Island and then just buy oil straight across the bay from Vladivostok rather than into World War three? Yup. And yeah. If so, now we're at a stage where Spike men's room land theory is actually infrastructure really integrating with all with all the Eurasian countries. And I call that the domino theory in our in our old videos. Right. So yeah, now if you go down to I know try try number seven because the global center of gravity is going to shift. Wow. So.
Stuart Turley [00:40:44] So for our podcast listeners, the slide is titled Modern Technology makes a huge, huge offer for Dugan dime integration and avail in the in whatever inevitability. Thank you. Yeah, I mean, this is just nuts.
George McMillan [00:41:02] Yeah. Modern technology makes a house up for Dugan. Dime integration and inevitability. So instead of the United States overextending Russia like the Rand papers, talk about of the Wolfowitz doctrine, we're $35 trillion in debt now and in excess of $200 trillion in debt. Of unfunded Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid liabilities. There's no way we can pay that back. So they're inflating the economy. So when they do pay those Social Security benefits, it just won't be worth anything.
Stuart Turley [00:41:35] Well, that's why they the tax on Social Security gets it back, you know, one way. And so it's.
George McMillan [00:41:42] Whatever. So the the global center of gravity is going to shift because now we're overextended in Ukraine, not Russia during the Russian and Chinese infrastructural integration has increased, not decreased. Russia didn't collapse because they've already prepared for it. I have a very detail slides that maybe we'll go over it next time. We're not going to get it to today, right? I can't go into a detail slides that because for people that have never heard of this, right. Just the basics of just looking at the maps needs to sink in. Right? Because remember a commenter said last time and on LinkedIn or something like that, no, we're delivering plenty of LNG to Germany. No. No. Their business, they're industrializing like crazy because it's not affordable energy. Yes. The United States has cut Germany off from affordable energy. So what does that tell you? Right. In the geopolitical strategies, If we're going to lose the German world to Russia, we're going to make sure it's a it's a de industrialized Germany that we're handing over.
Stuart Turley [00:42:47] Exactly.
George McMillan [00:42:47] Okay. The Morgenthau plan, make it an agricultural economy after World War two and it went to the Marshall Plan of developing it. Well, if it's going to go back in a house offer, do an integration with Germany. You can throw a rattle in there, too. You know, the German GOP politicians that were responding to Mackinder and Corbett. Right. You know, in the history. Well, I got the list of books and another slide, but we're not going to go over those today. I'll just talk over. It'll be in.
Stuart Turley [00:43:14] Our next one week or next week.
George McMillan [00:43:16] Yeah, because people can only take so much of this at a time. And like I said, the the prime minister of Denmark made our prediction talking about, Russia invaded for no reason, which is nonsense. We deliberately put, you know, tanks and missiles and and rockets and armored vehicles in Mariupol with 100 miles of Rostov on Don, their only warm water port. That is an invasion and no, we're just. And they escalated the attack on the Donbass. Right. Because Putin said do not go into Ukraine, because if that is their only warm water port and we're putting our tanks and missiles, armored vehicles, rockets, everything else within 100 miles of their only port. And the goal of that is to take over Crimea with the Black Sea fleet in it. This this is a deck, you know, the post 2014 made in revolution that Michael Barnes is very accurate about. It was a it was a color revolution on speed dial with big tech. He goes over that earlier you know in that in that Sean Ryan video and he does an outstanding job from that inside perspective.
Stuart Turley [00:44:28] That they're both great.
George McMillan [00:44:30] Good. Okay. The Roger Stone video, Roger Stone, the Oliver Stone video, some kind of Oliver Stone video.
Stuart Turley [00:44:37] I like Roger Stone. Do we want to get.
George McMillan [00:44:39] Out of Ukraine on fire? Right. But what you people different people talk about different aspects of it. So I'm adding the sea power versus land power doctrine because now that the United States is bankrupting itself and its allies. All right. If what I said earlier in the year. If the AfD rises in power, then that means NATO's going to be out of power. Okay. What's the purpose of NATO's after World War Two? I forget the the first NATO's commander said it is to keep the Soviet Union out of Germany. I mean, you're supposed to keep the Soviet Union out of Europe. I mean, it's supposed to keep Germany down in Europe and NATO's supposed to keep the U.S. in Europe with the gas pipeline infrastructure that puts the Russian heartland in Germany. It boosts German industry. So it puts Germany up in the EU. Right. And it pushes the Naito Alliance out of Europe. So just building those get natural gas pipelines negates every you know, the three major reasons that NATO's is there in the first place. Wow. And the reason that the EU, all the EU writers I mean all the EU Association Agreements have a NATO's standards clause. Right. So there will be you know, Ukraine is not and is not in NATO's, but.
Stuart Turley [00:45:56] They got to behave like.
George McMillan [00:45:57] NATO's, but they have to get military standards. There's all kinds of training that's been going on there for years. Right. And of all, while we're training in the Levorg area and everything like that, Yeah. But as soon as the troops are trained that the weapons and ammunition went to Mariupol. Right. You know, right next to, you know, right on the edge of sea, you know, threatening. So they're threatening. The coast of the agency is off Sea and Rostov on Don in particular and tried to take over the Russian Black Sea fleet. That's what that whole maneuver is about. Wow. If you didn't want to war, you would let Russia take Crimea back. You would. And I talked about this on various shows three years ago now. Right. That they would have gone to an intermarium plan and had the Baltic states, Poland and Ukraine have a buffer zone and increase economic integration in that buffer zone and keep didn't keep the rockets and missiles, the armored vehicles, the tanks out of Poland and Ukraine. It, you know, have some kind of buffer zone there and out of the Baltics. No. The Clinton and Bush administrations moved that hardware all the way to the border. You know, Mearsheimer talks about that. Jeffrey Sachs talks about that for a long time. We just want to put it here in terms of the sea power versus land power doctrines. And specifically, they're operationalized in the five and six power centers strategies by George Kennan and. 4750. Yeah. We want to put it in that in that context, because that's the part that this is the missing piece is that we're adding what the readers need to understand actually just kind of cycle through the maps as I'm talking, just so people that people that are watching can slowly look. Yeah, it's this is wait, stop right there. Just on this one. I'll touch this one again and repeat it. That spite means theory is to control all of the coastal rim land and not let the heartland integrate with the coastal rim lands because the industry, whoever controls the heartland, controls Eurasia, and whoever controls Eastern Europe controls the heartland in Eurasia. So Speakman said, Well, let's just start. Let's not just stop with, with, with the, the Polish plains and the Bessarabia and Plains, the two big invasion routes to Europe, to Russia, has always been the Polish plains north of the Carpathians and the Bessarabia in Plains, south of the Carpathians, between the Carpathians and the Black Sea. Right. So it's always there saying Russia is expanding to move into those those critical junctures. And I'm saying, no, Russia only Russia has only moved their army to push the Ukrainian forces back to the deeper. That's all they've done so far. They've been fighting a war of attrition. It has not been it's been not been a blitzkrieg to taking over those two. Right. Traditional choke points.
Stuart Turley [00:48:52] It is a basically almost a defense move. Now, I'm my agreeing. Am I saying Putin's a good guy? Don't know him. Is it? But it is not a war of aggression in a Alexander the great type or someone trying to invade some other country type. It's not the same thing.
George McMillan [00:49:15] No, as of right now. And I wrote this on LinkedIn, I even somebody wanted me to comment on somebodies page. I thought it was a repost, right? I commented on it. I thought it was a repost of David Petraeus post and it was actually his post. wow. He was arguing Russia was going to go all the way and take out. Well, the implication is he didn't put it in military strategic terms. But yeah, it's the Polish planes and the best Arabian planes is what he was what he was implying, because it wasn't all it was in all the papers, you know, Army Times and Stars and Stripes that the United States is training up their forces. If Russia invades, they're going to have a. Fallback plan. They're going to go to guerrilla warfare. And it's been talked about for, you know, ten years, 15 years. It's a big discussion. So General Petraeus made that assertion again on LinkedIn, telling everybody, you got to stop this. I'm like, no, that's been discussed so much that that's you can guarantee that's not what they're going to do. Right. Because if we've talked about what our strategy is going to be for 15 years, you can bet that they have a different counter strategy. So I was like, no, it's just going to be to protect their critical for their critical structure and their critical infrastructure because you have it with seapower versus land power theories. You're trying to choke structure and infrastructure because you're trying to stop your raw materials getting to be made into consumer products, and those go into consumer. Those are going to consumers. You're trying to stop each one of those phases.
Stuart Turley [00:50:49] Right.
George McMillan [00:50:50] So for Russia to stop that, they just need to push the Ukrainian army, which is Bandera types. They ascribe to that that ideology that was popular during the 1930s. Right. We don't want to get strikes. So, no, we they just all they did was just push those armies, the Ukrainian army back, and then they've held their ground. So I wrote that back. That would have been right after the war just started. So that would have been February. March would have been, I guess March of 2022 when the war started. And the reason why I'm saying that is I put this in writing back then, right? It is in writing because I said no, I didn't really mean to offend Dave. He used to be his friends. His parents and my parents were friends from the hometown. I don't want to. Yeah, his parents died. You know, my parents alive. But, yeah, I don't want. I didn't mean to offend anybody. It was just since Russia knows already can read the papers online like everybody dies, right? If they know it's to fall back into a guerrilla plan. Well, what's they're going to do? Well, they're not going to do that. They're just going to protect their critical structure and infrastructure so they can economically develop and then integrate with with China. Right. And then what's China doing? Well, the Silk Road Program Belt or the Silk Road program is about overlay and integration. Right. The Belt and Road program is about extending that and getting sea ports on the Indian Ocean side. So any ships coming from the Middle East or Africa can dock and send their goods by pipeline or railroad to China without going through the Straits of Malacca.
Stuart Turley [00:52:31] That is.
George McMillan [00:52:31] Great. People talk about the Belt and Road. As you know, China's really boosting their logistical supply routes. Right. To increase trade. Yes, they are. But they're doing it in such a way to bypass the Anglosphere maritime choke points to the extent possible. Exactly. So it's a critical part. If you go you go down on some more maps there. Or can you go to or actually go back up to the big maps on. People just need to see a map of what I'm talking about because the Strait of Malacca is yeah, it's south end of the Malay Peninsula between Sumatra and and Kuala Lumpur. So and then the ships have to go around Singapore and then get into the South China Sea, north of Borneo. So the Chinese started building up those islands to block that. So this is a maritime choke point strategy. Okay. Now to my next point. If the United States is going to block the Straits of Malacca and China is going to block the South China Sea. Back to what I said before. The purpose of that is to make sure the Philippines, Taiwan, South Korea and Japan are cut off from Middle Eastern oil also, or Africa. And what that means, the ships are going to have to go around Australia to get there. Well, what did they do is they is they made agreements with the Marshall Islands out in the Pacific and they started building naval naval ports out out West Papua New Guinea. What's the purpose of that? They want the ships to go all the way around New Zealand and have to hook back to Japan. Wow. Now you get to the next kicker. What do they have out there in the Pacific? Well, China for the past two decades has been building a billion of those fishing boats out there. Right. It's not very difficult for them to put electronic equipment on those. Right. And then report where the oil tankers are. So either you can sink them or commandeer them and have them go to China instead of whatever, wherever else they were supposed to go. Because China would rather take the oil themselves and sink it, because then whoever the oil came from would get mad. But they won't get mad if they're paid.
Stuart Turley [00:54:48] Exactly.
George McMillan [00:54:49] So once you start to look at what China's Silk Road is over land and then their belt is. Road. You know, you have to integrate the Overland integration strategy. Then you have the maritime mitigation breakout strategy. So the the Belt and Road Initiative is about having a maritime mitigation breakout strategy. Right. And people don't people miss the significance of it in the sea power versus land power dichotomy. So there are coastal rim land that's connected to Russia. So they're both a coastal rim land country and a land power country. You know, if you look at it in terms of speak men's model that I have on the on the map here. Right. So now what the weakest point of that system is, is Iran, because Iran controls the point between the Persian Gulf and the Caspian Sea. Right. So when you get back, if you can be roll Wesley Clark's video of these seven countries in five years or seven countries in three years or seven countries in one year or whatever they plant.
Video Clip [00:55:58] So I came back to see him a few weeks later, and by that time we were bombing in Afghanistan. I said, Are we still going to war with Iraq? And he said, it's worse than that. He said he reached over on his desk. He picked up a piece of paper. He said, I just he said, I just got this down from upstairs meeting Secretary Gates office today. And he said, it's a memo that describes how we're going to take out seven countries in five years, starting with Iraq and in Syria, Lebanon, Libya, Somalia, Sudan and finishing off Iran. Well, the truth is about the Middle East is had there been no oil there, it would be like Africa. No one is threatening to intervene in Africa. The problem is the opposite. We keep asking for that, right?
Stuart Turley [00:56:39] That's nuts.
George McMillan [00:56:40] Okay. I would list the countries differently than he does. Okay. The Shia Crescent is about Iran, the Shia Persians connecting with the Shia Arabs, the Alawite Shia in Syria and the Alawite Shia in Lebanon. Because if you control southern Lebanon and southern Syria, then you could attack Israel from the north and fulfill all the Hadith prophecies to bring back the Mahdi. So the Sunnis and the Shia are having a race of who can attack Israel first from the Khorasan. So you have that. Afghanistan is eastern Khorasan, where the Sunnis are, and they have to go through Iran, which is western Khorasan, where the Shia Persians are. But they have to go through. Iraq is mostly Shia Arab. To get to Syria, which is mostly Alawite, Shia, Arab and Lebanon, that's a mix between Sunni and Shia. And they're jockeying for position for who can attack Israel and bring back the Mahdi. So they're having to raise Hezbollah is there on behalf of Iran. So they're in the lead and the Sunnis are trying to catch up. That's why the Arabs have always backed the Pashtun tribes in Afghanistan, because they want them to sweep through the ice and smoke to the Sunni violent extremist organizations. So they're Sunni videos, Right. We want them to sweep through Iran, through Iraq and Jordan and attack Israel so they can bring back the Mahdi. So you have this occurring. Meanwhile, the neo cons want to get into Iran because they have to access all that natural gas and oil to negate the advantage of Russia. So with China and Russia being the stronger powers, the weakest link is Iran. So they're doing anything they can do to start a war with Iran because they need that Caspian Sea area and Persian Gulf area oil and natural gas. They need to send it by pipeline and they need several different countries to stop them from blocking it. Right. If ever you look at where the pipelines are. It's the conflict area, not just in Ukraine. They moved in the EU and NATO's east, the Baltics, Poland, Ukraine, Georgia, as Matt said, because they want to stop all Russian pipelines from going west, destabilize Iran, and then bring the pipelines to Turkey, which is a NATO member, but has its own agenda also.
Stuart Turley [00:59:09] Turkey is a wild you're wild card is a wild card because now with the pipeline that is being proposed under the Caspian Sea three weeks ago, I even ran a couple of stories on Turkey becoming a gas hub, a reseller, if you would, a broker, a sub broker outside of sanctions, as they have different import mechanisms. Either they are really looking to that. And when you take a look at the end of the contract for Ukraine's pipelines coming up at the end of 2024, that's a whole nother can of worms because Zelensky says he's not going to be transporting the Russian natural gas under contracts. Because his transport is up at the end of 2024, somewhere in that area.
George McMillan [01:00:01] So Russia honored that contract because it wants to keep the Central European powers, Right? Again, feature wanted to continue buying gas. Austria already did. Right. Because once the natural gas keeps on going. Now all these countries have to pay in rubles anyway. So they're going to they've already cut off Germany from affordable natural gas. The operative word is affordable. Right. Like the last person says, no, we're shipping LNG over there. Yeah. At such a high rate. It's causing, you know, cost push inflation. Obviously, it's driving.
Stuart Turley [01:00:32] $2 in the U.S. to 30 today, I believe. Is that is the price somewhere around there an equivalent by the time you get it to Russia is $30. So that is not cheap.
George McMillan [01:00:44] yeah. So yeah, German industry like we war gamed it on my telegram channel started looking where the different German car manufacturers had car manufacturers, right? We had automobile assembly plants in Southeast Asia because they have to move the plants out of Germany to their.
Stuart Turley [01:00:59] Volkswagen has been eviscerated. You know, they they are totally wiped out. 70% down in sales in right now for EVs. Okay. 70% down.
George McMillan [01:01:13] Right. So you have like you said, we put that last year in. Some people have never heard of, you know, this kind of geostrategic theory before. They scoffed at it. And it's like, no, these companies are going out of business. Right. Because going before Nord Stream blew up in September of 2022 or 2023, rather late. Now, I can't remember the three. Yeah. Before it blew up, we're like, okay, either all or she also has to reverse himself and reopen Nord Stream. Or he's going to lose government power in the elections. Right. And just before the elections, it mysteriously blew up. So whoever blew it up wanted to make sure that Nord Stream wasn't part of the election issues. That was done on purpose. And Americans are going to miss that because they're not going to be familiar with European elections like.
Stuart Turley [01:02:01] That's exactly right.
George McMillan [01:02:02] So that was taken off the table so it couldn't go up for Democratic vote because otherwise empty one. But now the AfD is winning anyway. And all the populist Mike Pence does a great explanation of the populist movements. They're all being thwarted and it's because of energy. And he just does a great explanation of that's what started the censorship in the Baltics and in Eastern Europe and then just moved west all the way. The United States increased social media. He does a great explanation there. Outstanding. Again, we're adding the geopolitical point of view to that. Right.
Stuart Turley [01:02:36] And top notch, I will have their show notes for that complete episode in the show notes here. So, George, out of people get a hold of you, they get a hold of you on LinkedIn.
George McMillan [01:02:47] Yeah, they can get a hold of me on on LinkedIn.
Stuart Turley [01:02:50] And your website is raven geostrategic.com.
George McMillan [01:02:54] Okay. So if anyone needs any would like to have any kind of consultation or would like to have my services, I'll tell you contact me.
Stuart Turley [01:03:04] I've known you for, you know, we've done quite a few podcast together. I've always gotten great feedback on your podcast. And if I was a CEO of a company and I've said this before, if I'm a CEO of a company looking to do a big energy project around the world and really want to understand what's going on, I believe I'd be calling George Macmillan, so please.
George McMillan [01:03:32] Call if anybody has any positions in Bangkok or Singapore, that would be even better.
Stuart Turley [01:03:37] But anyway, well, thank you so much for stopping by. And we've got another one in this series that we'll be recording next week. So, George, thank you for having a great day. I do appreciate your expertise.
George McMillan [01:03:48] Thank you. Thanks for.
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